First and foremost l want to apologise to Paul Wright. He sent this to me to review in good faith-
I just haven’t got round to it , I didn’t prioritise it . Sorry Paul. The rules are excellent, well thought out and inspiring for any gamer I venture. Do support this publication , you won’t regret it. Bob has written a comprehensive review here-
http://wargamingmiscellany.blogspot.com/2025/04/garden-campaigning.html
As ever I say it best when I say nothing at all.
Secondly on the matter of scruples. I threw myself into the 1944 1/72 figures with energy and enthusiasm. Army lists compiled, figures assembled, based on, undercoated and painting commenced. As l worked I listened to podcasts to reacquaint me with the period. The more l heard the more uncomfortable l became. It just felt wrong ( for me personally, I am not judging others) to game this. I don’t know why , can’t articulate it properly, it was a visceral reaction. So I have popped them away for now. Maybe l will come back to this project in time , maybe not. My 1940 games don’t make me uncomfortable in the same way. Seelowe never happened so in some way is imagination gaming. It seems ok to me. D day and beyond a different matter.
Scruples wise, reflag these Late War Germans as an ImagiNation and then they are usable again? Like Seelowe gameable as that never happened?
ReplyDeleteEarly 1940's is difficult, isn't it? When I started wargaming 12 years ago I thought I would enjoy skirmish and WW2. One day I was researching a commando action in France and I looked up the location on Google Earth. I realised that the orchard at the back of the cottage I was viewing had seen the ambush, and deaths, of some 30 German infantry. I did not feel comfortable with that, at all.
ReplyDeleteI excuse my reaction because I lost an uncle (my father's only sibling) in December '39, I grew up in a time where men wounded in action were not uncommon and I have served in the army myself.
I sold all my Valiant figures and moved back in time to English medieval and eventually into more modern imaginations. I feel comfortable with them.
Any historical war was about people aiming to and succeeding in killing each other. Imagi-nations are also about this but with somewhat less link to real life.
ReplyDeleteThe distance between now and WW2 is quite large. However, TV and movies, not to mention toy soldiers, were well steeped in WW2 immediately after the war and even during it and we are still saturated in it.
There was more reluctance, immediately after Vietnam to wargame it. Maybe more people thought the good versus bad was less clearcut.
WW2 is not my favorite period, and I do like the Edwardian period but that ended in the trenches and some horrific death rates. For the record, I have no scruples of playing any period of history. Genghis Khan really was as bloodthirsty as Pol Pot but I have no problems in fielding units of Mongols. Wargaming 'deaths' are not real! Others would say it teaches us what NOT to do again. Really, though, it makes little difference as there will always be border and trade disputes, ideological conflict and so on. Playing with toy soldiers is an innocent pass-time, unlike the real activities of world leaders.
Imagi-nations takes us slightly away from that but not completely. We are still representing how to kill an enemy, weapons and tactics. But I don't think it matters. It is fun but one does not have to be a psychopath.
I know what you mean about the scruples. War has, of course, always been ugly and nasty but from the 20th century onwards industrialised warfare has taken that to a new level - not to mention some singularly vicious regimes too. (For me even reading about the horrors the French got up to in Spain and Portugal in the Peninsular War rather puts me off fighting the French side in that war.) I feel that wargames should be about colour and heraldry and fancy uniforms to a large extent; once they stopped carrying lots of flags (c.1881) my interest also wanes! If it's not fun (and it is only a game we are playing) it's not worth doing...
ReplyDeleteAll war is gruesome and have casualties. I think gaming them let's us remember exactly that, and therefore has a mission and makes us aware of those subjects other people seems to forget about. Wargaming it's a hobby so I'll think we should keep to what makes us comfortable. That may very from person to person though. I do not mind wargaming modern conflicts, not even the conflict on Balkans in the 90ies I served in my self. But I understand that some may have second thoughts to this. I was even planning a wargame from an ongoing conflict, but have decided to postpond it, due to the community seems divided in this matter.
ReplyDeleteOn the other side; We're just rolling dice and knocking pieces of plastic or metal over. -Exactly as the Fantasy-gamers and board gamers do.
I agree with Roger and Anonymous II above - I don't really have an objection to any period, and I suspect the Romans, Huns and Mongols (amongst others) committed "war crimes" just as heinous as the Nazis. I do have figures (in 20mm) for the so-called War on Terror and have worked out spotting rules so that coalition troops patrolling through a civilian occupied area could make a dice role to identify and engage a suicide bomber before they had a chance to set off their IED, although I don't think I have ever played a game that included this particular set of circumstances.
ReplyDeleteI am currently working my way through a series of WWII memoirs by Red Army soldiers - those are certainly not for the squeamish and unlike some US or British equivalents, there is no sense of empathy or solidarity with the other "common man" in a different uniform - the enemy are rarely even called Germans, just "Nazis" or "Fascists". One of the authors (a captain in charge of a field artillery battalion) even uses the word "gleeful" to describe his feelings, watching 25kg shells rain down to 200+ fleeing enemy infantry, all of whom died as a result of the fire he personally directed onto them. Just back from my mate's place where we played a version of the Battle of Arras 1940 - had a blast!
I agree regarding the discomfort playing certain time periods. Although it is ironic that I would be interested in playing Napoleonics, but can’t bring myself to play American Civil war. I think it’s best, like you said, to let others have fun while abstaining. I don’t think there’s any shame in that, and I think it’s also why I play a lot more fantasy games than historical!
ReplyDeleteI was going to dig out some Valiant 1/72 British for you to hand over at Carronade!
ReplyDeleteThese things are never black and white but I feel that the Western allies did have some of the moral high ground in WW2. Opposing totalitarianism has to get some brownie points to offset empire, capitalism etc……
I (reluctantly) have German forces (no SS) just to have some opposition.