I’m all over the place over ancients! I really enjoy dbm but am getting sick of arguing about the minutiae of the rules and the legal language they are written in .Don’t get me wrong they have served me well for the past 24 years and given some memorable games. I am fond of them in a strange way. As the song goes I have become accustomed to their face.
A friend in England has just started going to his local club , he has been a wargamer for years and years. He is trying all sorts of rules , some to his taste some less so. Recently he had a go at Hail Caesar v2. The jury is still out as far as the rules. He is going to give them another go in coming meetings. I watched a few videos about H C on you tube and found them interesting. My friend has just bought HC v2 and kindly sent these which arrived today-
I wil give them a go after having a read. I just want to push some Early Imperial Romans around on the table in some solo games. Preferably in units as opposed to elements, possibly with morale tables. Not as simple as Neil Thomas, not as legalistic as Dbm . Just fun. Thoughts, suggestions welcome as usual.
If you have enjoyed the recent Italian Wars games using Basic Impetvs, trying BI for Ancients seems a logical progression. I could help out by bringing Ancients to a remote table not so near to you.
ReplyDeleteI did and a most kind offer that I would like to take you up on.
DeleteThanks Jon
Alan Tradgardland
How about one of the golden oldies? Charlie Wesencraft's Practical Wargaming has some simple rules which look good though I've not played them as I'm not an ancients gamer. And there's Tony Bath's classic set in Wargames
ReplyDeleteI second the mention of the simpler Tony Bath (and Donald Featherstone’s) Ancients Rules In Featherstone’s War Games (1962) available second hand online or digital / paperback reprint by John Curry, History Of Wargaming series.
DeleteAn aspect that really appeals to me is how short the rules in 'Wargames' or OHW are and thus it's easy to get into a 'casual' game. I really don't want to wade through pages of rules whose main purpose appears to be preventing abuse by overly competitive players.
DeleteAs a solo player, I also have this problem of “abuse by overly competitive players” :)
DeleteI have tried the Featherston and Bath ones in the past, maybe time for another look and the OHW ones too.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Any game that you actually get to the table is automatically better than one you just talk about.
ReplyDeleteWise words!
DeleteAnonymous has it!
DeleteBrilliant reply from Mr Kinch! I've had to pinch this for my blog!
DeleteBig fan of Black Powder but I've never tried Hail Caesar , intersted in your thoughts on it.
ReplyDeleteStill reading through. I’m a bit overwhelmed by all the rules ideas and potentialities . Long for a simpler age of 6th Edition or nought.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Tried Hail Caesar and thought it was ok. We are successfully playing "ancient battles" using adapted lion rampant rules and having fun with them. Depends what size of units you want. The rampant rules use 12 man units.
ReplyDeleteJust seen an amazing Battle of Murten 1476 on the Facebook group using these rules. I’m going to have a wee think again…
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Who are your Romans facing. If it's Britons, Gauls or Germans I'd highly recommend TFL's Infamy Infamy which is a great, creates lots of narrative, and while more tense with an opponent can be great fun solo.
ReplyDeleteThe rules are very different in a good way and the Romans and barbarians operate very differently.
As for Hail Caesar 1, I picked up a free pdf version but haven't used them.
Stephen
I’ve watched the videos of the game, interesting. To be honest I am not bowled over by the Lardy approach, don’t know why, feel bad about it or that I am missing out. Can’t put my finger on it,hmmmm.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Will you be using your Pavilioned in Splendour blog again?
ReplyDeleteThere’s a thing, never thought of that. A potential cunning plan.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Might be a question you could raise on the Society of Ancients forum? If you exclude the Dbx series and ADLG (which is a similar element game), you've still got a selection of popular modern sets like Mortem et Gloriam and To the Strongest! Some enjoy Simon Macdowall's rules for this period https://www.legio-wargames.com/ .
ReplyDeleteA plan. Watched M et G videos and TTS too. Not vibing them, don’t know why. I am looking either for the holy grail of rules or pining for a supposed better time.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Alan,
ReplyDeleteI tried to like DBM but gave up on them years ago as too much like hard work; DBA is as close as I get these days and it's become "finicky".
I have no time for any of the warhammer or BP stable - if that's what floats your boat, fine, but not for me.
There have been some suggestions, I'd say To the Strongest, unless you don't like cards or grids! In which case, Commands & Colors with figures is out, as is probably the new Peter Pig set.
You don't mention period, scale or army size, but a good set from the past is Shieldbearer:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/265145/shieldbearer
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=303100
Copies occasionally appear on eBay. Copy on there now:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/326099518000?itmmeta=01HXEQ3R38A1XZA86DDVCXV5BJ&hash=item4bed0bc230:g:ySoAAOSw~MllR3Su&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAAwNNhBlXZ5xMg1kcf0xXjHSpTQr4YDtEA0WZ%2Fc15sUCsXJ6rMngwoJdtmcqkWfKZwR6eaNV16OiOAgf4%2B6gnr4o1ehtuCeSiHcOuv%2Bjgje7X1bf0K4618hTetPVN2HfM%2Fv906y4FD%2F0vmijzRDRmWyALh7JiolNyxzjKCtvYAPQDgmGXWRpLjUsnUZqZy90gHvk%2ByUqyRx8oAMzacpTDMkkcSVCg6hxOhNlpLJThy8R%2BBJBs7mMk3hmFUuixMVDSyjg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-CBj9frYw
Neil
Thanks for ideas, just not sure where to go next rules wise…
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
I agree about DBM... I briefly went to a club where they played it exclusively and it really put me off. Too many fiddly minor movements to get a unit just in or out of charge distance by a few mm etc. We use Hail Caesar (and Black Powder and Poke and Shotte) regularly which means everyone has a good grasp of the principals and we can crack on . They may not be the most detailed historical rules but they're great for getting a game on the table
ReplyDeleteReading through HC and you do have a point re getting to know a set and cracking on.
DeleteAlan Tradgardland
Hail Caesar was put together to play big multi-player wargames with two or three players a side and - ideally - an umpire to set up the games and chivvy the players along. And make the tea. The basic idea is very simple but it relies on concensus rather than 'rules' as such - specifically because each player has to give orders verbally and then try to carry out actions in accordance with what you've said. So, there is certain amount of theatre involved in the process of issuing commands, which suits the multi-player game. Folks do play one-on-one but I would say it's not where the game's strengths lie. If you check out the Perry Miniatures page on FaceBook you'll see the latest battle report in which I took part - that's the kind of game where HC works at its best.
ReplyDeleteI fear my wee and solo games are not for HC, by what you say.
ReplyDeleteAlan Tradgardland
Well it's not what I had in mind when I wrote the game - but hey give it a whirl, roll a few dice, plunder for ideas - have fun.
ReplyDelete