I’ve been musing of late how we seem to have lost our sense of fun as a hobby. We take ourselves too seriously at times, move towards rivet counting and pedantry. Not everyone ,by any means , but we are in danger of losing our child like , playful side in a striving for historicity and simulation. After all we play with toy soldiers and that’s that!
The Oldhammer community , for example, seems to retain the fun , core element of enjoyment-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lfp45pcRoXc
Many blogs retain that essential fun. Here’s an example-
I’ve just finished a dbm fifteenth century Army in 28mm. It will take to the table for the first time later this month. I don’t care if I win or not. I just want to play in character , in period as much as possible and have an enjoyable game with a strong narrative and anecdotes arising from it.
These guys are fun-
Self indulgent , nostalgia dripping, seventies project. I totally admit it. To be played with fun rules. I still recall how daylight caused my trolls to turn to stone on a bridge thereby blocking it totally for friend and foe alike. That happened nearly fifty years ago but has stayed with me.
So let’s have fun in the hobby. Boo to points values, competition gaming and pedantry! However if that’s your thing, enjoy it and play with fun. Rant over. Thoughts please…
Wargaming for most is a hobby. Hobbies should be fun! While I am no proponent of points values, competition gaming, or even pedantry, everyone’s definition of “fun” can be different.
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm certainly ready to sign up for something using all those Minifig MEs. I've been away from the painting table for a couple of months, but that last unit I finished was a dozen man-orcs with spears. :D In my mind, the question with getting my MEs on the table is whether I want to use a current set of rules (say Dragon Rampant), or something more in keeping with their periods. Rules were going through a period of adding complexity in the '70s when those MEs were new, so the actual rules I used then wouldn't be fun. I'd have to go further back and houserule something from the 1960s books, War Games, or How to Play War Games in Miniature, or maybe Practical Wargaming from the early '70s.
ReplyDeleteWargaming is a broad church; many seem to forget the "game" in wargaming. Games are supposed to be fun, whatever your interpretation of that is.
ReplyDelete"Fun" has become an antidote to "serious" gaming, yet clearly the serious gamer must enjoy what they do? Many interpret "fun" as less complex rules or games emphasising play over accurate research.
While this may be true of some games, it doesn't hold for all. Many rules with apparently simple mechanisms, incorporate subtlety not immediately apparent.
Much depends on what you want from a game...
For some it's about winning, for others a visual spectacle, yet others a social activity.
What's important is knowing what you want from a game; who you play with is more important than what rules and figures you use.
Unless there is a common aim or understanding, it's unlikely either of you will have "fun".....
Neil
"For some it's about winning, ......" and for the soloists it's because we know we cannot lose :0)
ReplyDeleteI took the summer off from gaming. It lost its appeal, what with everything going on in the world right now. I'll return to it in the cooler Autumn weather.
ReplyDeleteTradgardmastare,
ReplyDeleteThe day I stop enjoying my wargaming is the day I’ll stop … and having fun is a very important part of that enjoyment.
Although I’m still having fun playing around with the Portable Wargame, for my current Eastern Front/Great Patriotic War project I’m actually looking back at some earlier rules that I wrote that are based on ones written by Donald Featherstone and Lionel Tarr … because they are fun!
All the best,
Bob
Alan
ReplyDeleteI hope you enjoy your Middle Earth rebased Forces, they look stylish and good fun.
Thanks for the mention of my red box ‘faking lead’ Space Troopers, slowly being painted ready for the next refight using my simple Close Little Space Wars rules, which are basically Featherstone’s War Games 1962 (and its Close Wars appendix) with the word ‘space’ or ‘laser’ put in front of a range of weapons categories. Being based on early Featherstone rules, they owe lots to Science Fiction author H.G.Wells’ 1913 book Little Wars.
I have been using these simplest Featherstone rules since childhood library borrowing using many figures I have had since childhood because it’s my idea of fun and reconnects me to my gaming happy place (of solo childhood floor, garden and kitchen table games).
Most modern rules systems that I wished I understood when I read about them in the magazines are way too complex and complicated for me. I still enjoy the magazine pictures and figure reviews though. Each to his or her own idea of gaming fun. But as you say, however sophisticated our modifiers and set up, it’s still for me “playing with toy soldiers” just as it was in Wells’ day. And if it isn’t fun, why do it?
Mark Man Of TIN adds: there is another enthusiastic Youtube video by the young lady at Rogue Hobbies about this OldHammer and Bring Out Yer Lead weekend https://youtu.be/VVIZ5oIkVmg?si=qkL3h0kA8mWu-wUN
DeleteWhat do you "we"? :laugh:
ReplyDeleteBut seriously, it's always about the fun. As each person defines that for themself. I tend towards silly and/or lighter games. Some people really do ge a lot of joy from being more serious and studious about historical accuracy. It's all good, as long as people choose their fun and don't put down other people's choices of fun.
I wasted last week, when I was off work and hoping to use it for hobby stuff. But I still enjoyed myself, reading mostly. There are many ways to have fun, and they don't all have to be slavishly following the latest rules... or at least that's my excuse when I get them wrong!
ReplyDeleteI get fun/enjoyment out of most aspects - deciding on a new era, researching all the figures available for what I am planning, calculating the most cost-efficient way to do what I want to do, buying the figures, waiting 4-6 weeks for them to turn up from the other side of the world, prepping them, painting them, basing them and taking pics to put on my blog. For an extra added bonus, sometimes, I even get to play games with some of them - yes, I do have figures that have sat in storage boxes for ten or fifteen years and never been in a game - they are the minority I think, but there are enough of them for me to be aware they exist!
ReplyDeleteI’m on the same page as you Keith, except the wait is shorter. It’s all fn in my books, except when it’s not and that’s when I take a break.
DeleteChris/Nundanket
Enjoyment. And that can answer for many sins, perhaps. For mine, it is always the story. I like stories, and I wargame for the stories. Some are anecdotes, through 'historiographical' accounts, epics and sagas.
ReplyDeleteOf course, like all stories, everything has to make sense, which is why there are some rules sets I've never got my head around, and at the same time, the 'one-off' battles so favoured of the competition-type of wargamer has scant appeal for mine. About 10 years back I played in a 'HotT' competition - mainly so I could admire the imagination that went into others' armies. I transformed the account of the comp into a narrative - something I've seen others do.
Story. Can't beat it.
Cheers,
Ion
I wouldn't worry too much. Sadly small groups of individuals are taking everything too seriously and screaming outrage at anything that they feel needs screaming at. I do wonder if the hobby's fascination with skirmish games based around mythical worlds, alternative history etc s simply to avoid the risk of being screamed at and the subsequent storm that would be generated by some very angry individuals who are desperate to feel relevant.
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly with Ion: it's all about the story generated by the wargame. Here is an apposite quotation from the Introduction to A Gentleman's War or Glossy Coats and Tin Bayonets by Howard Whitehouse and Daniel Foley:
ReplyDelete"It is a relaxed and relaxing game, where enough depends on the turn of a card and the roll of a handful of dice to say that our disasters are pure chance, but enough cunning decision-making to claim our victories as acts of brilliant generalship."
I find myself increasingly drawn towards this kind of wargame; a game of toy soldiers with no pretensions to be an historically accurate simulation, that is easy to understand and learn, simple to play and generates entertaining stories. My only armies nowadays are Red, Blue and Green ImagiNations forces with an early 19th century/Napoleonic Wars appearance and any set of rules longer than twelve A4 pages, and/or replete with abbreviations and calculations, or that cannot be summarised on a one page playsheet is rejected - TLDR, as they say.
Regards, Arthur
Can't talk about not having fun.... Killer tomatoes, anyone? https://easterngarrison.blogspot.com/2023/08/do-you-think-theyre-friendly.html
ReplyDeleteNo matter the rules, figures, or genre, it is about 'fun' in all of its forms. I agree with the folks above - the story that the game generates is best of them all.
ReplyDeleteI wholeheartedly agree. I’ve been offline due to the move, but I’ve been playing at the local game shop and some of the people I game with don’t understand why I’d rather bring “thematic” regiments rather than “the best” rules-wise. Because of FUN! Glad to see the black dog has let up a bit.
ReplyDeleteDoubtless for some a hobby is about winning or as an ego-trip but I think for most its about enjoying oneself. It can also be an escape from other, less-enjoyable aspects of life such as work, difficult relationships or poor health. That enjoyment can be in many forms - the sheer fun of playing a game, the satisfaction from completing new figures or units or everything which is needed to stage a game. I'm often puzzled that there are people who feel they need to detail how to go about every aspect of their rules and that there are people who want to wade through all that to play a game. I get some of my satisfaction from conveying the character of a period using the minimum possible number of rules - its a challenge that I enjoy solving. I want the game to be about making decisions, not calculating combat outcomes. A Gentleman's War is one of the very few published sets of rules I use, I think Arthur's spot on about the spirit in which they are written and intended to be used. My interest in wargaming is driven by my interest in history but I'm happy to indulge in imagi-nations where it suits my desire for an enjoyable game. It can be a solution to an otherwise interesting period where one side dominates, eg Prussia in the Seven Years War (though its widely viewed superiority isn't entirely accurate in my view) or for toy soldier game which isn't intended to be serious. The latter is where my own thoughts on an 1848 game are leading me.
ReplyDelete